11 thoughts on “Bill -n- Sam’s Excellent Adventure

  1. Chris Fellows (@cfellows65536)

    I thought the Tiger Woods metaphor was spot on. I couldn’t fault Sam Harris in this. He comes across as much more reasonable than Dawkins (or winstoninabox, for that matter :P). The empty comment box is me trying to post a cartoon of dubious relevance, BTW…

    Reply
    1. winstoninabox Post author

      On the charge of being less than reasonable, someone has to fill the void left by the death of Christopher Hitchens. I don’t mind if you find me personally a little unreasonable, but if you find my arguments or rebuttals so, then that’s something I need to work on.

      Chris, did you look at the blog by David Yearle that I recommended? Recently

      Reply
    2. Chris Fellows (@cfellows65536)

      On reflection, there is one thing I have to put myself on record as claiming to be factually incorrect in Sam Harris’ discourse. Christians, Muslims, and other flavours of theists are not “atheists with respect to the other guy’s God”. They believe it is the same God, but the other guy is responding to God in the wrong way and has a few of the details wrong. I am sure most Muslims and Christians would see even the most demented Mumbo-Jumbo of some remote tribe as a confused misapprehension of the true Creator of the universe.
      I thought I should add this because you (mine host, winstoninabox) keep asserting that Lennox is talking about “the Christian God” rather than God in general and this somehow invalidates his arguments. FWIW, I haven’t come across anything he claims for the nature and attributes of God in his book that is incompatible with the main non-Christian theisms.

      Reply
      1. winstoninabox Post author

        They believe it is the same God, but the other guy is responding to God in the wrong way and has a few of the details wrong.

        And atheists are just theists who’ve got all of the details wrong? Nobody’s denying that we’ve a word for people who believe that there’s a god, but details that theists differ on are the reason why they cannot and will not agree on what that god is. And unlike a scientific debate, the details that theists argue about are backed up by no evidence. How wrong about the details does the remote tribe have to be before the Christians and the Muslims just say, you’re wrong about everything except that there is a god?

        I thought I should add this because you (mine host, winstoninabox) keep asserting that Lennox is talking about “the Christian God” rather than God in general and this somehow invalidates his arguments.

        I’ve said that Lennox is making the weakest possible argument he can, and defending it in the weakest possible way. I’ve also said that I can’t disagree with the argument that god could be the answer, but only the most pigheaded atheist could. Lennox, in attempting invoking theism is saying that there could be something out there which cannot not nor ever will be able to detect that is the creator and controller of this universe in a way that we cannot understand nor will ever be able to test. OK, I’ll say sure.

        The problems arise when the claimer brings evidence to support the claim, which as the claimer Lennox must do. None of the evidence he brings is any any way conclusive to his claims.

        As I said in a reply on another thread to Marco today, it’s easy to allow Lennox’s claims about the supernatural when there is no cost to do so.

        Reply

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